The Oliver Brothers
(1805 - 1886)
(1819 - 1873)
The day of this
update marks the 180th anniversary of the
departure of the Oliver brothers, James and
Samuel, to New Plymouth on the barque 'Amelia
Thompson' on the 25 March 1841.
with his wife Ruth and seven children.
Unfortunately one child died on the voyage over.
Samuel was single
and met his wife, Elizabeth, in New Plymouth.
She sailed on the barque 'Blenheim' with her
family the following year and they married two
years after that!
Who is the Mother of
our James and Samuel Oliver?
Grace Brayley has
thought to have been the mother of our brothers
- James (1805-1886) and Samuel Oliver
(1819-1873). However, revelations from Katia and
Tim Oliver, have concluded she was not their
mother. This, after extensive and thorough
research that included going through a myriad of
new records that were scanned at the Devon
Record Office as recently as 2020.
Tim Oliver is a
x3 great grandson of James and Ruth Oliver, his
grandfather being Ivor James Clark Oliver
In an email dated
4 January 2021 from Katia and Tim Oliver, they
recorded their research. They started by writing
down in chronological order from baptism
records of children who were born from parents
John and Grace Oliver from 1798 to
1822. Some of the children of John and
Grace were baptised, and possibly born, within a
few months of each other in 1808 and 1810 which
They then divided
them by locations of baptism, and came up with
two separate families. And, both families were
headed by a John and a Grace Oliver!
The children from
the first family were baptised in Ashwater and
in Halwell, locations 5 miles apart in the
County of Devon. The children in this family
correspond with the names in the Will of James
Brayley whose daughter was Grace Brayley and
married John Oliver. And, Grace Brayley was born
in Halwell on 9 January 1774, married John
Oliver of Ashwater in Halwell on 18 September
1796 and died on 20 February 1821.
The second family were
baptised in Holsworthy, St. Giles in the Heath,
and Pyworthy. Holsworthy and Pyworthy are just
over two miles apart. St. Giles in the Heath is
a little further away at nine miles. However, we
know, that the Grace that married our John
Oliver was born in St. Giles in the Heath. This
from the 1851 census. And, the children match
those listed in our John Oliver's Will.
So, the conclusion is, there were
definitely two families headed by a John and a
Grace Oliver. One based around the Ashwater
and Halwill area. The other is our family,
children baptised predominantly in the
Holsworthy and Pyworthy area to the north.
Who is Grace
Katia and Tim
have found a baptism record dated 29 Sep 1776
for a Grace Lane in the Parish of St Giles in
the Heath. (We know from the 1851 Census that
our Grace was born in St Giles in the Heath).
Interestingly, this baptism date matches the age
on our Grace Oliver's headstone in Boyton that
reads, "Also of Grace his wife who died February
1st 1860 aged 84 years". Now, if Grace was
baptised at the time of her birth, she would
have been only 83 years old. However, if she was
seven months old or more when baptised, she
would have been aged 84 years at time of her
(In fact this
would be the same for husband John Oliver who
would of been only 77 if baptised at the time of
his birth. However, if he was a couple of weeks
old or more when baptised, he would match the
aged 78 years on his headstone).
Note - the dates
we had for Grace Brayley never matched. So, it
is pretty convincing that Grace Lane is most
likely the mother of our brothers James
(1805-1886) and Samuel Oliver (1819-1873).
And, we now also have
a record of the marriage between John
Oliver and Grace Lane. This in a followup
email from Katia dated 10 January 2021. The
original entry from the Luffincott Parish
Marriage Register Book shows the date of
marriage as 1st April 1800. Luffincott is only
five miles North of St Giles in the Heath where
Grace was baptised.
Map Showing Locations
We welcome any
correspondence on this intriguing research.
New Photo Album
Katia and Tim
Oliver, with help from the wider Hawkes Bay
Oliver families, have also shared family photos. Over 150
photos are divided up into seven albums and
include the families of James (Jim) Alexander
Oliver and his son Ivor James Clark Oliver.
Photos of their wives' families of Shute and
Florance respectively, are included.
John Oliver Descendants
have recently received a message from Tim
Barnett, Manager of Digital Assets, of
Auckland Libraries. The Libraries have posted
over 800 photos of the descendants of John
Oliver, son of James and Ruth Oliver as part
of their Heritage Collections.
Oliver's daughter, Mary Oliver, married Edwin
Charles HUGHES. Mary and Edwin's children
Edith Prosser HUGHES who married
Frederick John BURRELL
Edwina Mary HUGHES who married
Alfred John WILSON and had sons George
Desmond and Edwin Charles WILSON.
Eileen Dorothy HUGHES who
married Eugene Ryan DERVAN
above names are listed with some of the photos
as possible identification. And, there are
lots of unidentified family members. The
collection may be found here:
Barnett says, "we had very little to go on
with when we were trying to identify people
and places and would be very grateful for any
corrections or additions you might be able to
you can help you may contact me or contact Tim
alongside this website and is generated from a
genealogy program called "Reunion".
Here you may navigate up and down
through family relationships. To get more
information on a particular person - click
on their name when they appear in the middle
section of the tree webpage. Here, a new
'Person Sheet' will open often giving
sources of information and notes. An example here of a
Person Sheet. Information on living people
has been filtered out for privacy reasons.
We maintain the
latest version of the software (Reunion 13.0
build 210217) used to generate 'The
Tree'. Functionality includes a responsive
design' for optimising the web pages for
whatever device being used, ability to search by
name, ability to generate pedigree charts
for easy-to-view relationships.
thank you to those that have contributed with
additions since the last update.
Carroll, Carrell, Carrel
A book titled, ’John
and Talitha Carroll - From Jersey to
Wanganui’, published in 2019 by Anthony Carrell
is highly recommended. Anthony has written this in an
informative, detailed, and
describing the life of John and Talitha and
their children. They immigrated to
Wanganui New Zealand in 1874 from Jersey,
Channel Islands. John Carroll was born in
Tipperary, Ireland and wife Talitha was born
in Somerset, England. They met and married in
Jersey. Read a book review here, and
find details on how to purchase.
This website is dedicated
to Brian and Carol Oliver's children: Nigel
Churton, Sarah Ferguson (nee Churton), Emma
Oliver and Marie Oliver; our seven
grandchildren, and to all the family members
that appear in our genealogy pages!
last updated: 25 March 2021
Previous 5 updates:
2020, 7 March
2020, 3 July
4 July 2018.